tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post7189222112268577593..comments2023-09-25T04:26:51.568-06:00Comments on The Barefoot Bum: Interview with an atheistLarry Hamelinhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08788697573946266404noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-5482049901941675502009-05-14T08:42:00.000-06:002009-05-14T08:42:00.000-06:00This guy asks much better questions.
http://www.fa...This guy asks much better questions.<br /><A HREF="http://www.fallenandflawed.com/atheist-robert-madewell/" REL="nofollow">http://www.fallenandflawed.com/atheist-robert-madewell/</A>Robert Madewellhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13237253238274655114noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-24033519034765673692009-05-13T09:56:00.000-06:002009-05-13T09:56:00.000-06:00I think you gave fantastic answers, but especially...I think you gave fantastic answers, but especially to the "What if Jesus showed up and proved xtians right" question. The existence of god (as implausible as it seems) is irrelevant to whether or not I would follow biblical teachings and backward, arbitrary "morals".JarrodBnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-2888665055911255242009-05-12T23:06:00.000-06:002009-05-12T23:06:00.000-06:00Chris,
I have tried to argue that point with Chri...Chris,<br /><br />I have tried to argue that point with Christians, but it just never sinks in. It does not matter if there is an objective standard if we don't have an objective method to gain access to the standard.<br /><br />But, the best thing we have is an inter-subjective standard. Me and you and whomever else we live around decide amongst ourselves how we ought to behave. <br /><br />The Christian seems to have this fetish for certainty. They want to know that there is some absolute right and wrong.<br /><br />For me, because of pragmatism, whether or not there is such a thing as objective morality is irrelevant, because we have no objective way of knowing what it is.<br /><br />Anyway, just restating your point. This issue drives me insane.GarageDragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399828220100913111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-81932717304220548092009-05-12T19:37:00.000-06:002009-05-12T19:37:00.000-06:00The prepositions didn't bother me nearly as much a...The prepositions didn't bother me nearly as much as all the other bullshit surrounding them.Larry Hamelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08788697573946266404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-92205222582018934392009-05-12T16:06:00.000-06:002009-05-12T16:06:00.000-06:00Knight states, on the subject of incorrect preposi...Knight states, on the subject of incorrect prepositions:<br /><br />"Thanks for the input, but I’m not changing anything because that’s the way philosophers speak. The word 'on' is a short form of 'on the assumption that atheism is true'."<br /><br />While I do not think this is correct, even where it so, then all it would indicate is that some philosophers are quite dumb.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-42626221286282453722009-05-12T14:32:00.000-06:002009-05-12T14:32:00.000-06:00Rene,
It is true that he, like most Christians, t...Rene,<br /><br />It is true that he, like most Christians, tends to assume that atheism implies subjectivism. The trouble is that he is hopelessly muddled in his thinking about ethics (like most Christians.) I am a subjectivist (heavily influenced by MESR) but it is still maddening to try to debate the issue even when the Christian seems to want to discuss subjectivism. For one thing, when Christians say “moral subjectivism” they often mean “do whatever the hell you want any time you want and don’t ever judge anyone else”. In a trivial sense I <I><B>do</B></I> do whatever I want (including judging others) <I>all things considered</I>. That is the crux of the issue--<I>all things considered</I>. But in any case, this is not subjectivism especially with the second clause included. I can darn well judge. Secondly, Christians are subjectivists too and they also <I><B>do</B></I> do whatever they want (including judging others) <I>all things considered</I>. It is just that in their considered opinion, they choose to follow the moral dictates of the Bible. Even if God were real and even if the Bible is his list of do’s and don’ts, Moral Objectivism would be no more true than if I put out a list of do’s and dont's and people wanted to follow it. <br /><br />And that is the real problem. Christians (and many Atheists) who profess moral objectivism are very unclear about what they mean by the term. Moral Objectivism is not simply making use of an objective list of do’s and dont's. <br /><br />This is also why you would fare no better arguing objective morals. Unless you and the Christian start with an agreed upon list of shared values (subjectively supported) you could not reach any agreement with the Christian.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324751751266266009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-28782721936375869352009-05-12T08:35:00.000-06:002009-05-12T08:35:00.000-06:00They ask the same boring questions, don’t they? W...They ask the same boring questions, don’t they? What is curious is how Christians presume their own world view when asking these questions. For example, Question 12 I found…odd. <br /><br />What if Jesus showed up? WinteryKnight immediately <I>presumes</I> this establishes “Christianity” as he defines it. What if it didn’t? (Hey—we have already started the “What if…?” game in these questions. Why stop?) What if Jesus showed up and said, “All that stuff in the Tanakh and New Testament is bunk. I’ve been busy killing off God the Father for the past 2 minutes (which seems like 2000 years to you all) and now we can establish peace. First let’s straighten out the mess religions have made.”<br /><br />Or take your answer, The Barefoot Bum. What if Jesus showed up? Since we are already “What if…?” What if he gave justification for the situation of the world that satisfies your reason and you would NOT be interested in rebelling against him.? Sure, I understand you and I cannot see any possible justification at this moment, <I>but nor can we see the possibility of Jesus showing up, either!</I> Once we enter the realm of “You don’t think this will happen, BUT pretend it does…” we can fill in the blank with anything and everything. And keep going and going.<br /><br />WinteryKnight presumed a certain “Christianity” was proven true, yet isn’t that the point? If we thought it was true, we wouldn’t be atheists! Making the question like, “If the sun blew up yesterday—what would you do today?” The answer being: “Nothing. I would not exist.”<br /><br />P.S. WinteryKnight uses the term “on Christianity” and “in Christianity” apparently interchangeably throughout his blog. As well as once using the term “in atheism.”DagoodShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04557451438888314932noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-34767668465053985062009-05-11T23:07:00.000-06:002009-05-11T23:07:00.000-06:00On that last question I thought Knight was asking ...On that last question I thought Knight was asking about the most difficult thing about being an Atheist...increased moral demands, unpopularity, persecution all come hand in hand with rejecting dogma.<br /><br />Questions 6 - 9 were very interesting. There were so many ways to justify moral behaviour and objective Universalist morality from an atheistic standpoint. I think a theist would have a much harder time with those, especially with 9) since slavery was justified using Christianity.Rene Benthienhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13340596328031265224noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-13492008497339153252009-05-11T20:11:00.000-06:002009-05-11T20:11:00.000-06:00Yeah, that "on atheism" shit made me want to stab ...Yeah, that "on atheism" shit made me want to stab my fucking eyes out with a rusty tetanic fork. How fucking pig-ignorant do you have to be to not even know how to use the motherfucking preposition "on"?Comrade PhysioProfhttp://physioprof.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-49409931251501228302009-05-11T18:38:00.000-06:002009-05-11T18:38:00.000-06:00Oops, no you didn't. I overlooked the final phras...Oops, no you didn't. I overlooked the final phrase "only out of fear and cowardice."<br /><br />Must be my cognitive faculties don't function properly as a result of sinning.GarageDragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399828220100913111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-38146839902754483482009-05-11T18:34:00.000-06:002009-05-11T18:34:00.000-06:00I think you left out a 'not' in your final sentenc...I think you left out a 'not' in your final sentence in answer 12.<br /><br />Otherwise good stuff. The first question is beautiful. Scary to think most of my neighbors and co-workers would answer 'yes'.GarageDragonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11399828220100913111noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-86178658607168910372009-05-11T17:57:00.000-06:002009-05-11T17:57:00.000-06:00No worries, Chris: That's how I read your initial ...No worries, Chris: That's how I read your initial comment.Larry Hamelinhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08788697573946266404noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-6059434794551585872009-05-11T17:50:00.000-06:002009-05-11T17:50:00.000-06:00I obviously meant the Christian site when I said "...I obviously meant the Christian site when I said "this" site and not the Barefoot Bum's.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324751751266266009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-14864830332328638532009-05-11T17:24:00.000-06:002009-05-11T17:24:00.000-06:00I posted answers (very quickly) and he removed the...I posted answers (very quickly) and he removed them. He emailed some further questions to my post and I answered them, but that is it. This is the same bull shit you get from all of these sites, We could blind fold our selves and type out more coherent objections to atheism drunk than you will get from this site.Chrishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08324751751266266009noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-50305651440782674162009-05-11T13:59:00.000-06:002009-05-11T13:59:00.000-06:00His persistent incorrect use of "___ on atheism" w...His persistent incorrect use of "___ on atheism" when what he means is "___ <I>in</I> atheism" is really, really annoying. Too much free time, not enough elementary grammar.James F. Elliotthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16747033407956667363noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-28755195.post-25782401923608066182009-05-11T12:09:00.000-06:002009-05-11T12:09:00.000-06:00Urgh. I threw up a little in my mouth.
Not at yo...Urgh. I threw up a little in my mouth.<br /><br />Not at your answers, but at WK's condescending bullshit.<br /><br />Half of those questions are just unadulterated nonsense based on faulty premises, ass-backwards "logic" and other typical fundie idiocies.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com