Yet another theist can't handle having his views contradicted and his intellectual failings mocked, and I've racked up my fourth blog ban! Quoth Jefferson:
Ridicule is the only weapon which can be used against unintelligible propositions. Ideas must be distinct before reason can act upon them; and no man ever had a distinct idea of the trinity. It is the mere Abracadabra of the mountebanks calling themselves the priests of Jesus.Just so y'all know: I like pissing theists off.
- Mere Comments
- Subversive Christianity (now defunct; asked to "go our separate ways")
- Some dumbass who demanded I respect the "rationality" of her belief in Intelligent Design
Time Immortal(ban lifted 2 Jul 07!)
And Stephen: Thanks for reading the blog!
From Kenneth's comments on his blog:
ReplyDelete...self-instruction tends not to work well in a religious context, so I suppose the fact that it misfires in a philosophical context also ought not to surprise...
That shit's hilarious. I'll admit to sometimes being turned off by your rhetoric, Larry, but this kind of resorting to the argument from authority just doesn't pass muster. What actual use is there to any form of reasoning or argumentation that can't, with research and due consideration, be comprehended by an interlocutor without explanation by authority? If one can't be bothered to perform due diligence and research on one's own, then yes, you should give weight to the informed consensus of those who make it their business to do so. With someone such as yourself, who has so bothered, the argument from authority becomes an ad hominem.
I've been doing this since late 1999.
ReplyDeleteKenneth is the creme de la creme of intellectually honest theistic bloggers; he's head and shoulders above even a professional such as Kerry.
These people are literally impervious to reason. There's nothing—not even insults and abuse—that can touch their hermetic, authoritarian little minds.
Couple that with my absolute fury over the suffering, injustice, abuse and violence that women such as my wife have suffered at the hands of Islam, and yeah, I get a just tiny little fucking bit snarky at times.
If you want to read me in a venue where bend-over-backwards politeness was strictly enforced, check out this debate with Rev. Muse. (I'm PoodleLovinPessimist)
Larry,
ReplyDeleteKenneth may be intellectually honest, but I hadn't been browsing his blog for more than three articles before I found this gem:
"I’m Catholic…homosexuality is immoral in my eyes, and all I ask is that people who are gay... refrain from rubbing my face — and the face of all orthodox Catholics — in their lifestyle choice(s)."
No one who can voice such sentiments can claim to have undertaken even the beginnings of a truly honest assessment of their religious beliefs. Kenneth deserves your browbeating and thensome...
Kipp,
ReplyDeleteI have heard sentiments similar to Kenneth's surprisingly often. Whenever a gay man or lesbian woman is open about their sexual orientation, it tends to stick out to most people. Is that because gay people "flaunt" their sexuality in offensive ways? I do not think Kenneth realizes how deeply immersed in heterocentric norms he is. Heteronormativity is everywhere and on everything. As a gay man, I know how deeply and profoundly alienating this can be.
Kenneth also fails to perceive the gravity of the situation. The reality, the truth of the matter, is that gay men and lesbian women are that way constitutively, and it shapes their entire presence in the world. Whatever his views about sexual ethics, his remarks indicate a real failure to grasp the depth of the problem.
What I am trying to say is that Kenneth's dismissal and hostility, all too familiar, is the product of something much more all pervasive than his religious background: the entire culture in which he lives.
Larry,
I continue to be vexed by your firm belief that all theists are authoritarians of some sort or another. I have known many such people, however, despite this, I have discovered how profoundly radical and subversive religious faith and living spirituality can be. I strongly encourage you to look into the tradition of liberation theology, which I regard as a genuine return to the saving message of the Gospels.
timmo,
ReplyDeleteI entirely agree that Kenneth's homophobia (or I suppose more his desire for homocryptia) is derived from more than simply a religious prohibition. And his justification of his aversion in doctrinal terms underscores the lack of depth in his thinking along these lines. It does not speak well for the rest of his religious musings.
And you make a good point about liberation theology. Of course, you aren't the kind of theist that makes the world a frustrating place to live so Larry isn't as motivated to figure out and categorize your psychology (which might well be an intractable task considering the diversity of your thinking :-)
Keep in mind that I don't try to psychoanalyze people—unless they're lying on the couch in my office paying me $100/hour.
ReplyDeleteKeep in mind that I did not say that Kenneth's ethics were first class.
I know about liberation theology, and I think the project is doomed. All religion is essentially authoritarian, and liberation theology is trying to construct a better authority. But I'm a small-ell libertarian and anarchist: Authority is, in my opinion, inherently evil. I'm with Diderot: Humanity will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
It's not enough, I hold, even to be good because God demands it. To earn my ethical approval, one must be good because—in one way or another—it is in one's personal character to be good.
Timmo, let me be blunt, and I hope you'll forgive me because I do really like you as a person: I don't think you have a little mind, but I do think your theistic philosophy subverts reason. I think your ethics are impeccable, but your effort to project those ethics onto God is internally contradictory. A benevolent dictator is no less a dictator than the most oppressive tyrant, and the tyranny of good is, in a way, just as horrible as the tyranny of evil.
I don't know if you'd be happier as an atheist, but I do think you would have fewer cognitive conflicts to reconcile.
And heterocentrism is certainly pervasive, but it's not everywhere. I'm off to work the final long training run for the AIDS Marathon Training Program, a decidedly non-hetereocentric organization which has shown me, a straight man (and non-runner), nothing but acceptance, appreciation and genuine friendship and community.
ReplyDeleteHumanity will not be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
ReplyDeleteA very colorful expression. One that made me smile.
Keep in mind that I don't try to psychoanalyze people—unless they're lying on the couch in my office paying me $100/hour
ReplyDeleteYou're under-billing! Going rate's at least $150 these days.
You're under-billing!
ReplyDeleteI have to offer a discount because of the the whole no college degree thing.
Not to spoil the fun or anything, but I decided to reverse the ban. Banning you was, I admit, a mistake. Can't say that your response wasn't predictable, though.
ReplyDeleteKen, although no longer banned, I'm not planning on returning any time soon.
ReplyDelete